Thank you Charlie. I see that there are quite a few people who aren't convinced about the usefulness of mass protest. I think that on its own it isn't very useful but where it is used as a support to movements like the Claiming Our Future, new parties or organisations suc as Fís Nua etc, then it becomes something truly worthwhile and is mutually beneficial. I was disappointed to see the lack of coverage of the weekend's RDS gathering in the mainstream media. Did it get even 5 minutes on RTE?, not on the 6:00 at any rate. You need the additonal support that comes with mass protest in order to create momentum and it is in the interests of the organisers and those who have the skills to organise and organisations behind them to encourage, facilitate and participate in protests so that the media, the government and the establishment generally see that people are serious, commited and organised.

There is a lot of self serving information in terms of economy and the whole attitude of the business and governing class to strikes. Of course they are going to tell us it cost the economy x amount. But the point is we are not an economy, we are a community and we need to balance our priorities in terms of long term goals. The business and governing class is never going to tell you that a strike is anything other than a negative for. For them,
. Everything is calculated in terms of the bottom line.
. Strike behaviour threatens them.
. They pretend that they want full employment but the truth is that it suits them better not to have full employment because they have a large pool of desperate workers and they can force ever more severe conditions. This is allready taking place.
.Every recession has allways widened the gap between the powerful and wealthy and the powerless poor.

The period from 1950 to 1975 saw the greatest ever income and employment growth aligned with a narrowing of the wealth gap. Workers enjoyed better terms and conditions but were also more productive. From 1975 all these hard fought conditions began to deteriorate and were rolled back as gradually globalization allowed offshoring and meant that employers could brow beat workers to accept worse and worse conditions, promising that jobs would be safe if workers made less demands and accepted these less and less favorable conditions. But jobs were not safe and after most manufacturing was outsourced to cheap labor in uderdeveloped and developing countries we have now come to see that it doesn't matter how much we give in on terms and conditions, we will eventually lose out anyway. Every day we are told by the ruling classes that we are uncompetitive even though they are getting richer and richer. Every day we are told that we can't afford the meagre services that we have allready pid for while the government bails out the wealthy. Every day we are told that we need to tighten our belts, that we need to suffer now in order to reap the rewards later. Forever we are told this.

During the "best" years of the tiger, we were told to keep our head down, not to rock the boat, to not demand better because we might damage the "economy". All the while when billions we spent on road projects, on tax breaks for massive useless shopping malls, hotels, warehouses, empty industrial parks, children we still being schooled in prefabs, people were dying for lact of attention or wrongful diagnoses in hospitals, sufferers of mental illnesses were being ignored, parts of some of our cities were becoming no go areas where people were afraid to leave their own homes or go out and night. Meanwhile our politicans lorded it travelling the world in luxury jets, staying in hotels in the manner of sheiks and dispensing their wisdom on how they created the "celtic tiger" with pompous bombast.

Now we musn't protest because we might further damage the econnomy. Which economy might we ask? Is it our economy? If it is ours why do we have no say in its makeup, in its implementation, in its distribution or in its reward. Clearly the economy does not belong to us. It belongs to them. It is they who decide that we and not they should suffer. It is they who decide that we and not they should pay the cost. It is they who decide that we and not they decide who calls the shots. We cannot afford to have decent schoolbuildings while they must retain the privilages of office. We cannot afford to pay basic welfare while they continue to give tax-breaks to the wealthy. We cannot afford a future because they sold it out in the past.

I agree with Kieran o'Sullivan. We need a national day of action. We need to tell the TS's we 're serious and we mean business. We need to make it harder and harder for them to hold on while they plan to implement the forthcoming punishment. We need to blockade the Dáil on the day of the budget. And following that the occupation of not just public buildings, but also of the banking headquarters and the IFSC. The protests are coming.
THE PEOPLE, UNITED, WILL NEVER BE DIVIDED

At the very least we need a massive protest but what we really need is:

1. A national day of action (before the budget).
2. A series of Pickets on Government TD's offices (before the Budget).
3. A series of rolling strikes (before the budget).
4. A national strike on the day of the budget and a blockade of the Dail.
5. Occupation of public buildings After the budget.

What I saw on Saturday was classic abuse victim behaviour. The attitude of a lot of the attendees and all the organisers was "if only the government knew how unfair targeting the poor was they wouldn't do it" Lets be absolutely clear here it is not that they don't know it is that they DO NOT CARE!

Partnership between the Government and the people is an abusive relationship and the only way to end an abusive relationship is to abandon the false hope that the abuser will stop abusing you and fight back.

We have less than 5 weeks to present to the public an alternative to the cuts
This is going to be a differcult task. I was hoping that the event would have produced such demands. Based on what was done though, which was great, we need to put a clear set of demands together
Along with the demand for Keating like legislation on our natural resources the Community Platform is call to:
1. Reduce tax breaks for the wealthy to EU levels
2. Introduce a Wealth Tax for high earners with assets worth more than €1million
3. End Tax Exile loopholes by making citizenship the basis for taxation for high earners
4. Apply PRSI and income levies to all income, regardless of source
are, to me an excelent start.
We have this week to decide on demands as we need at least 4 to promote them
Jim

Protests can change things.
They form one element of a strategy for change. Protests can act as a catalyst for people, who may otherwise be apathetic, to actively pursue change. They can force people to sit up, take notice, question things and start informing themselves about the issues and what options there are. Many, many people in this country still exist with their heads in the sand - they have been trained never to question, never to think.
Protests can also incite genuine fear among the elite. Remember, those in power only look tall if we stay on our knees. Liberties will always be taken until you stand up, confront and say ‘enough’.
However, for any protest to be effective it must be large, and include all sectors of society.

Completely with you, James. Two years of the Govt making things worse and we accept no election until 2012? Earliest May 2011? Giving them up to two more years of wrecking? We need to surround the Oireachtas and Govt complex until they are driven out, as in Ukraine and in Iceland. It needs the same degree and level of organisation, logistics, and commitment. If civil society organisations will not provide these, and I somehow cannot see ICTU doing it, being so locked into the corporate state, we need immediately to begin to organise for such an action.
But just a demonstration? Waste of time and energy, Duke of York-type outing. If we go out on a mass action, we need to be determined to stay the course, and we need to be determined to win. And we need to be determined not to be moved.

I don't believe a protest will change anything. We've had protests, and what have they changed? Nothing, rather than venting anger, and giving the participant a feeling of having done something... Would question their effectiveness.
The claiming our future initiative on the other hand is a much more innovative initiative, and I hope that a lot of momentum will come from this excellent initiative, and that this will last far beyond the actual day! The massive oversubscription to the event is an indication that there is a real potential in the country, and the organisers have done well to tap into this. This forum here, and online presence is another excellent measure that was taken. I hope this continues fruitfully beyond the meeting on Saturday. I'm sorry I cannot attend this truly exciting opportunity due to oversubscription - I hope it turns out to be become a turning point in a mobilisation that goes far beyond the effectiveness of a protest! Let's see what else happens! BTW, if this leads to the formation of an entirely new political movement / party, that would be not a bad thing!

another 'massive protest' suggestion. Its all I've heard suggested from the SWP over the years, whether from the Irish Social Forum efforts and elsewhere, so am assuming you must be a member james (no SWP swipe intended). Protests, which require a lot of energy, and then lead to nothing simply dissipate the energy that could be used more productively elsewhere. Protests, and Joe Duffy or blogs, do little more than offer a temporary release valve to reduce building tensions and anger, before its back to the way it was. Much like the role of tolerated disent in Stalinist Russia (eg carnivals).

I just think that'll develop by itself on the Saturday. A little bit of a spontaneousness is not bad. And people who are committed will go anyhow. You better motivate the people at the event then before I believe. Every single participant can organise something. I think it's not the task of CoF to organise a protest. I see this event as a provided platform where people of different directions / groups / organisations can come together and learn from each other. We should appreciate all the work of the organisers and not blame them for being not biased.