Charlie Williams
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The ideas from these forums will inform the start of the debate on October 30th. Where they will be discussed in consensus deliberation. Register here for the event
This is a forum for you to dicuss ideas on line - these ideas are your ideas - they are ideas that we may not agree with - but we are providing you with a framework for that discussion. The outcome of the Claiming our Future Event will be the results of the deliberations on the day
Wayne, we all wish that "the best & brightest" are placed in power. But who defines who is "best & brightest"? The "bright" voter.
And what has that to do with e-voting?
See yous all at the event :-)
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 2 days ago
Don't think so. IMO posing a question can never be an insult or even an offense.
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 3 days ago
That's illogical, HardWorkingEejit. What has a voting procedure (electronical or manual) to do with the politics. Votes are not counted by just some politicians, they are counted openly.
Do you not become a bit fanatic with your e-voting system?
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 4 days ago
HardWorkingEejit:
"Charlie : You seem to be missing the point. It's a dual system.
You can count manually (so you can check the system),
but you can also count by scanning barcodes (and get the benefits)"
What benefits, please? The benefit of wasting money into a system which is, if fully publicly controlled, unnecessary then?
If you only would count a small percentage by hand to check the correctness, you will end up again with uncertainty.
We are talking about THE base of our parliamentary democracy here and not about some industrial products.
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 4 days ago
It's not only about storage, HardWorkingEejit. If we want public control the paper backup would have to be counterchecked. Then you don't need e-voting. It would only cost us more for no benefit. And how do you want to guarantee that the system stores the true votes on those papers? Means you vote A and thge machine makes a B out of it. To make e-voting as safe as the traditional voting, if it would even be possible, you need more money, more work, for what benefit then? Only that we can say, we are progressive, because we have e-voting now. Sounds insane to me.
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 4 days ago
WV Vote Flipping Caught on Tape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q9NSVUu8nk
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 4 days ago
SHELBY: 3,221 PHANTOM VOTES FOUND; SAME LOCATIONS HAD UPLOADS DAY BEFORE ELECTION
Consultants examining the Aug. 5 Shelby County election found 3,221 more votes than voters on documents provided by Shelby County elections officials pursuant to a court order.
Most voterless votes were found in large Republican precincts, a non-random distribution.
The inspection team sought and obtained documents in connection with a lawsuit filed by ten defeated candidates over irregularities in the election.
FOUR KINDS OF INFORMATION ARE NEEDED TO AUTHENTICATE AN ELECTION:
1. Who can vote (the voter list)
2. Who did vote (the list of participating voters)
3. Were votes cast the real ones (chain of custody)
4. Was the counting accurate (public verification of the count)
Shelby County admitted that they installed an invalid voter list in Election Day electronic poll books, altering #1 (WHO CAN VOTE). The list said thousands of people could not vote because they had already voted, even though they had not voted.
Shelby County withheld the list of WHO DID VOTE (#2 ) until ordered by the court to produce it. When consultants analyzed the list of who did vote, they found names missing for 3,221 votes counted in the final certified results.
Shelby County computer logs show uploaded invisible data from 16 polling places the day before the polls opened. The premature uploads were done out of public view, and no testing procedure or work order record matches documents the uploads of invisible votes into the central tally machine, raising questions on WHETHER VOTES COUNTED WERE THE REAL ONES(#3).
#4, COUNTING OF THE VOTE: Shelby County declined to provide precinct results after the election and even after they certified the results; Elections Administrator Richard Holden stated in front of a court reporter on Aug. 16 that it was not possible to produce them, a misrepresentation to the court, but the inspection team discovered copies of precinct results reports sitting on Shelby County computers. The results had been there since Aug. 6. Shelby County precinct results ("Statement of Votes Cast" or "SOVC") do not match the list of participating voters.
* * * * *
A meeting is being held tonight, Thursday Sept. 16, for all citizens and the media to hear details on the evidence. Shelby County Voter Protection meeting: 6:00 pm at Morning Star Holiness Church - 3161 Park Ave Memphis TN 38111-3043
* * * * *
Shelby County's certified "SOVC" results show 85,290 votes cast at polls (not early votes, or absentee votes, but Election Day polling place votes. But Shelby County's Participating Voter List shows only 82,069 voters who cast votes at polls.
Also, in at least five locations containing phantom votes -- votes without voters -- Shelby County had performed secret uploads from voting machines the day before the election.
PRECINCT: COR09
The heavily Republican COR09 precinct, location HOPE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH shows just 20 people who voted at the polling place, but the certified "SOVC" results counted 619 votes. This is a discrepancy of 599 votes.
More:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/8/81178.html
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 4 days ago
Years ago was an e-voting test project in Germany. 15 to 16 year old pupils, who were not involved in that programme, could hack into the system and manipulate it. If they wouldn't have published their success it would hardly have been discovered. Since that, e-voting is off the stove in Germany. Nobody over there would even think about it anymore.
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 4 days ago
I just think that'll develop by itself on the Saturday. A little bit of a spontaneousness is not bad. And people who are committed will go anyhow. You better motivate the people at the event then before I believe. Every single participant can organise something. I think it's not the task of CoF to organise a protest. I see this event as a provided platform where people of different directions / groups / organisations can come together and learn from each other. We should appreciate all the work of the organisers and not blame them for being not biased.
3 call a massive protest following on from this event. - 4 days ago
Noel Thomas Martin.
The list about the failures of the "Green" Party, how you call it, was put up by the Donegal Greens secretary, Frank Gallagher. The motion to disassociate from the GP was in particular justified by the betrayal, of the GP leadership and within their party membership altogether, of the constitutional principles of their own party. You have to see it in this context. And if you follow my subsequent letter to John Gormley as the party leader, you will find some more reasons why the DG were going this step. I never claimed any completeness of the list of the reasons. So I can only agree with you in your opinion that the GP are doing nothing for the health of the Irish people. We now have a new federated party on the horizon with a growing membership, Fís Nua, which is committed to exactly the target which you are pointing out. We wish to build a movement that will offer an alternative economic and social vision for our country's future.
I hope we get as many as possible members to give the people of Ireland the alternative to vote for a party which is determined to a sustainable future for Ireland. Please visit our website and read our constitution. You will find that we are a federated party where joining groups / initiatives won't lose their own identity, but it is still a one person one vote policy. We are a decentralised party with a co-ordinating committee as a steering group. Please read also our manifesto. If you agree with the most of that, then why not becoming a member and be part of a very new kind of a party. We have the vision, a New Vision for a sustainable future. Fís Nua.
All best.
Hope to chat you at the event.
Charlie
3 call a massive protest following on from this event. - 5 days ago
Cannabis is proven less addictive than caffeine. Google a bit you will find that I'm right.
3 Ending of cannabis prohibition to take money and control away from gangs and to regulate sales. - 5 days ago
The "Green" Party has indeed betrayed their own constitution. That is the reason why the Donegal Greens (http://donegalgreens.com) have disassociated from the GP/CG last November 1st. Here the explanation => http://donegalgreens.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Notice-of-Extraordinary-General-Meeting-01Nov09.pdf
91% of the voting Donegal Greens members were in favour for the disassociation.
My open letter to John Gormley (http://donegalgreens.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Open-letter-to-John-Gormley-10-Dec-2009-_0_.pdf) has never been answered.
3 call a massive protest following on from this event. - 6 days ago
Just go http://cannabis.com/ for example.
3 Ending of cannabis prohibition to take money and control away from gangs and to regulate sales. - 8 days ago
I agree 100% with Kim.
"We have conclusive evidence that both alcohol and tobacco are unsafe, both are legal. There is enough data to suggest cannabis is safer, it should be totally legalized and bar commercial sale, unregulated.
Its blatantly obvious that safety is not the reason it is illigal"
3 Ending of cannabis prohibition to take money and control away from gangs and to regulate sales. - 8 days ago
How you want to achieve that? Like China? Germany's native population is shrinking since the late 70s (They actually are supporting childbearing for several decades). How did they achieve that without any regulation? Common wealth.
Massive reproduction can be found in poorer, less educated countries. People are having more children there, because
they are their personal pension guarantee,
the mortality is much bigger.
Common wealth, where people are not afraid of the future, and common (free) education are the keys to a sustainable future.
0 Be Radical - Put Population on the Green Agenda - 9 days ago
Any computerised system can be manipulated. With electronic voting we would lose public control of our elections. I'm absolutely against that!
0 We need ELECTRONIC VOTING (safe & secure) so the people can be consulted more frequently at low cost - 9 days ago
I think we need a new constitution from the scratch. First of all: strict secularism.
We have to start with a blank sheet, and then adopt the good values of our existing constitution.
Our parliamentary democracy needs to become overhauled.
More power to local councils with an own budget. No more unelected county managers.
A 50:50 solution how the Dáil shall be elected.
One half like the existing TDs from local lists.
The other half from a nationwide list.
Abolishing the unelected Seanad.
Other countries do a much better job with that kind of parliaments.
0 Direct Democracy - 9 days ago