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1) General Forum

41 votes
  1. 3

    "a very simple tax system, so simple that i keep getting told it is unworkable."

    Sadly, this is often the case Emer. As with TEQs talked about in another thread, which is a way of dealing with energy usage that is not only simple but also totally, utterly fair.

    Such things are not allowed!

  2. 1

    One way of solving this problem of the obscene chasm between the earning of the bosses and the workers would be a very simple tax system, so simple that i keep getting told it is unworkable.
    tax on earnings up to 100, zero
    tax on the next 100, ten per cent.
    tax on the next 100, twenty per cent
    tax on the next 100, thirty per cent.
    tax on the next 100, forty per cent
    tax on the next 100, fifty per cent.

    i am talking about earnings per week here, and the incremental increase in taxation would make it les... more

  3. I was reading a paper on restricting CEO pay last night, and in it a book by Graef Crystal is cited as tracing a ratio of 5 back to Plato; JP Morgan is cited in the paper as saying it should not be more than 20. The original manifesto from Is Feidir Linn (that led to the Claiming Our Future conference and coalition) proposed a ratio of 10.

    [For the fellow nerds on this thread, are the references and links:

    Dittmann, Maug and Zhang "Restricting CEO Pay", European Corporate Governance Institute... more

  4. 3

    Good ideas here lads, plenty of food for thought.

    Remember that 10:1 is not a fixed idea, just an ideal. Also, by legislating to move towards a lower ratio over a number of years - perhaps as long as 25 - companies can move at a very slow, manageable pace and address the real issue, which is growing inequality.

  5. I think there is room for ratio's and other mechanisms & actions, if it didn't specifically state "Ten Times" in the title of this I might vote for it.
    It is certainly important to reign in on overpaid bankers, politicians and senior civil servants, and closing the wealth gap is important, and urgent

  6. Perhaps instead of a specific ratio we should say that in each company, the committee that decides wage rates must have 50% worker representation on it. A stepping stone towards this would be, all businesses in receipt of government contracts would have to make this change by, say 2015 if they want to keep getting government contracts.

    This would ensure that the people who work in the company have a say in who gets paid what, and because workers would be less likely to sanction ludicrously high salaries... more

  7. Equality Dude
    Ref : Free - Loader.... Point Taken

    Ref : Why more money for more skill ? (more than 10 fold that is)
    To encourage people to improve their skills and to aim for higher standards of education & skills, and to allow a lifetime of efforts be well rewarded.

    A 10 fold gap is too low, some people gamble years & years of their lives developing new technologies and enhancements, and a 10 fold income growth is not sufficient to reward this sort of dedication.
    I would find it harder to arg... more

  8. 1

    This is a sensible and equitable solution. We don't really need the people who think that they are worth several million euro per year. There is no justification for paying people such sums.

  9. @ HardWorkingEejit

    Part of the situation you describe is the well-known free-rider problem. As far as I know, that is an unsloved problem in existing systems. Why should alternatives be required to attain a higher standard

    Why should a high-skilled -- which is a different point from hard working -- why should a highskilled and hardworking person get more than ten times the amount that a lowskilled and hardworking person?

    As for your second point, yeah, we should go for it! For example, that would mean... more

  10. How would you stop some lazy bugger from doin feck all and still being paid 10% as much as the hardest working most skilled person ?

    I have no problem with a self employed person charging as much as they want for their services, and if they want to employ someone on the minimum wage to clean their office, would this mean they have to pay that person 10% of what they earn ?

  11. 3


    Don't do an Anglo and forget about legislation and regulation!

    An ethos is nothing without them.

  12. The underlying sentiment is excellent, but I think the specific point about the 10:1 ration in a (single) business would need to be examined more carefully. We already currently see increasing use of 'flexibility', outsourcing, so-called "self-employed" contractors, etc. It would be very easy to undermine the purpose of a 10:1 ratio limit by setting up a separate company for different activities -- outsourcing lower jobs so that the pay ratio for the top earners is not hampered by the presence ... more

  13. 3

    Lucy: "I just wonder about arguments that this would cause a brain drain. How do counter them?"

    You mentioned one way, which is essentially an attitude shift. This has to start with children and education as well as adults and their current obsession with growth at any cost.

    My system of phasing in greater equality would help too. You would have a brain drain but my guess is that it would work both ways, as Ireland becomes more attractive as a true land of equal opportunity.

    Don't forget, th... more

  14. 2

    I just wonder about arguments that this would cause a brain drain. How do counter them? Point to the immorality of inequality. It takes me right back to Socrates: punish my sons if they value wealth over virtue...

  15. 3

    I can add little but my approval to this suggestion.

    To get to this ratio, a wider one could be legislated (say, 400 to 1, which I guess it is at the moment) with a clear road map to achieving 10 to 1, say over the course of 15 years.

    It must include banks and the government. Indeed, there can be no exceptions.

  16. 3

    This simple idea means that the right-wing argument that 'a rising tide raises all boats' becomes a reality. Neo-liberals say that entrepreneurs deserve high incomes. It is usually those who stand to gain from this that promote the idea. Well this requirement means that, sure, let some people earn high incomes. But to do so they have to share the profits with everyone in the company - right down to the toilet cleaners.
    It would also give everyone a meaningful stake in the organization. It obviousl... more

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